Is sexual orientation a Choice?
I don't know how many times I have had this conversation. First off, lets define the two.
Choice-
An option; a decision; an opportunity to choose or select something.
Lot-
That which happens without human design or forethought; fortune; fate.
I can only speak for myself, so heres my side of the story.
IT IS NOT A CHOICE. The "choice" is in determining whether you want to do what is your natural inclination or to follow the social norm. Do you think love is a choice? Emotions? What about...Happiness? Pain? Are these things we choose to be or the outcome of "choices"?
When people not apart of the gay community speak about it being a choice it is often in reference to the physical aspect. Some say maybe you dont choose how you feel but you can choose what you do or how you act on those feelings. And my initial response is WAIT....Are you askin me to be unhappy to fit in this cubical of "normality"? FUCK..... THAT. Secondly, it makes me believe that they think you are only GAY because of your ACTIONS. WRONG! I knew I was very much attracted to women at a young age. Sex, lust and corruption [those nouns they associate gay with] was unknown to me. To look back and know the feelings I had when I was younger further lets me know that these arent just choices. This is something within. NO FORETHOUGHT.
I am a very firm believer in the divine order of God. And I find it hypocritical when those who are religious speak on divinity but don't think I am who what or where I am suppose to be in MY life. My life was already planned before it began. I think choices are illusions to make us feel like we have control over the outcome of our lives and we don't. [which is why i use quotations]. There are no "CHOICES", there are gateways and roadblocks to get you to a destination faster or slower. Two roads diverged in a wood...God already knows which one you will "pick". Do you really think it takes a lifetime of choices for God to know WHO you are? This time on this EARTH is for YOU to figure out who you are and what your plan is. So if you do believe in CHOICE, WHO are you making your choices for? and WHY?
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20 comments:
I am undecided on the topic, but I have said before that it is likely part choice for many of us...and when I say that, I don't mean we CHOOSE to be with women for the fun of it...understand I know very clearly that I could not help my natural attraction to women. However, I think the lifestyle, for many, is a choice. I say this because of my belief that sexuality is a flowing continuum for many women, and not set in stone for most. I think a lot of women can be attracted to men or have feelings for SOME man beyond friendliness, but because of their general ideology and sexual identification, choose not to pursue or acknowledge those feelings...just as I feel many straight people do the same. But did I CHOOSE to love breasts and a woman's smile and her touch? No, not at all...but who wouldn't love that? =]
For the most part, I would say I agree with your arguement. Here is where I understand your viewpoint, but will stand by my own. Indeed, if you do believe in the divinity of God's Order, your path is, in essence, predetermined ... evenso, that does not mean your "choice" is any less yours. Even though the Creator knows your every move, the Creator doesn't necessarily interfer with you making them. It is almost to say, "Why would the Creator cause one to go through pain and suffering when it could be stopped and peace could bloom all around?" It is because the Creator has allowed us the "choice" to "choose" one of the various paths put before us, as well as the position to suffer consequences for our actions.
At the end of the day, yes, the Creator more than likely knew you were going to come to that day's conclusion, but your "choices" are what got you there.
This is my opinion, and mine alone. I do not force it upon you, just giving you a different perspective. Stay Blessed!
Mental-test,
I agree with what you have said partially. When war happens, i think its because its suppose to. It was already planned. Nothing could have prevented it. Each event in life effects the people it needs to for another cycle to take place. A cycle I believe has already been planned so that we can learn from it. So yes I do believe God puts people through pain and suffering, why wouldnt he? We grow from it.When ppl ask questions like: "Why would the Creator cause one to go through pain and suffering when it could be stopped and peace could bloom all around?", I think that is an immature mind speaking, who has no faith in God's reasoning. But yet again, my opinion. I appreciate yours as well
i definitely dont think it is a choice for many, especially myself. bt the church is so cunning to making u believe that u chose the life and that u r able to unchose the life. this has caused much confusion in my personal life. since i ws a lil shorty and didnt even kno wat it meant to be gay i was yet attracted to women. i came out when i ws 14 and was a stud. by the age of 16 the church got a hold to me and literally tried to make me ova. my life has been hell of confussin eva since. i honestly believe that u can b gay and b saved howeva the blk church is known to hang u for such a concept. i just hate the perception that says if u r gay then u r damned...I DONT BELIEVE THAT IS GOD! so obviously this is a sensitive subject for me not only b/c i have personally had run ins with tha church but also because my father is a PASTOR!
Thought and question is not immature, nor does it sincerely imply a lack of faith, though I respect your opinion. I have actually studied the word and its hidden meanings; and based off that and my personal experience, my convictions are as thus.
I stand by what I have stated and what the faith I have has led me to believe.
I never said questioning wasnt immature but THAT question specifically leads me to believe the one asking it expects a world of perfection. How do we grow without pain and suffering and why should we expect NOT TO go through it?
I agree with everything you said, up until the point of not having free will. I don't believe in God....at least not the God of the Bible, and if there is a divine power, I doubt He or She would be involving itself in our measly affairs. I believe in total free will. Who you fall in love with is a "choice". Whether you'll be happy is besides the point. Everyday we make choices that will lead us down a path and usually, we can see the outcome from a mile away. To suggest that we have no free will means that we are simply minions on a board, controlled by the whims of an unseen force. I have a hard time believing that I didn't choose to be where I am today.
Now if what makes you happy, is being with a woman, then it's the choice you make. We can get into whether or not one was born with the inclination to go one way or the other, but I think that is exactly the problem. So many presume to know what "God" wants, or what is deemed 'normal' behavior. If people focused more on their own happiness, they wouldn't be so busy trying to keep others from theirs. It goes beyond choice or lot for me. At the end of the day, you have to do what feels right to you, despite what the majority may think. You have to choose happiness.
I guess I can agree with some things you've said but existentialism is pretty whack indeed. I think we all know when to brush our teeth, comb our hair, wipe our ass, so "measly" affairs im pretty sure God need not apply. I dont quite think you get MY point. I do believe people make their own choices and decision but I have said is that everything is in DIVINE ORDER. These things God knows would and WILL happen. When i realize that the world's future has already been made THAT is what i think about when i say the PATH is already been SET. So i think people need to see the bigger picture and not be offended that they themselves havent made everything in their LIFE possible ALL by themselves.
Actually, I totally see your point in that people do need to see the bigger picture, and gain some perspective beside the one they were taught since birth. Where we differ is in our point-of-view of God and the whether or not the future is already known. I have a completely different philosophy on that, but that's okay. My point really is, at the end of the day, people should mind their own beezwax. Live and let live. I think we can agree on that
Oh im suuuuuuuuure we can agree on more than just that lol Clearly we have the same take on the Bible. I never stated my religion. And i DEFINITELY agree that if people were'nt so concerned how everyone else was living the world would be 50% times more peaceful.
OH yea and I only seek to know what the Lord wants for myself. No one else. And there are glimpses in every stage of life that lets ME know what my purpose is. Some never wish to find out but thanks God i im almost pretty clear what mine ARE. Cuz imma multitasker lmao j/k im totally NOT
True indeed. I like a good philosophical spat, so expect to me to be all over this joint. Lol!
That was kinda deep
I feel you on everything and I don't even believe in god...
Yet I felt what you were sayin
Any way your words are inspirational and are very helpful.
Thanx.
With all respect to each and every person who is lesbian/gay: I would like to address the issue of the feeling that homosexuality is not a choice. First of all I can totally understand how someone would say "it's not a choice.....i've been interested in the same sex before i even knew what gay or sex was." And yes it is so true that we have paths already set for our lives. But there are two different paths in which God let's us decide which path we want to take. These are ultimately two different topics that can be taken in so much depth. And it would be difficult to explain it all now. But anyways...so how could we have made a choice about something that was already there? Well, here's the thing (there is so much to this one topic that there is really not enough space on this blog to get into it so i'll try to stick with the basics). If you believe that as well as there is a God that there is also the Devil then you will somewhat understand a few of my comments. Those who have no knowledge of the spirit world according to God's word then you may be left clueless as to what im saying but i pray one day you will seek truth. As God himself has destined our lives, the enemy(Devil) also has destined arranged a 'destiny' for our life with the purpose of keeping us out of the will of God. As a child the enemy begins 'planting seeds' in our lives or shall i say making plans and setting traps in our lives that will in his hope cause us to stray away from who and what God designed us to be. How? The devil can only make suggestions to you. Your mind is an open field for his attack. Yes, though it sounds unfair, he is allowed to start at the earliest of a person's age. For the bible declares that we are born into sin and shaped into iniquity. Here's a stage scene for example: A little boy at the age of 6 is constantly picked on for being 'different'...not like the other boys. He's called names like soft, fagot, punk and other words of the like. He knows as well that he is different and have known for quite some time but has no idea of what these names mean or why people say them. As he gets older and boys discuss girls....he within himself knows that he is not interested in girls in this way but that he is attracted to other boys. When he finally confides in someone about his feelings they tell him that it is not right and that it is a sin before God. At this moment, this young man has been presented with a choice. Even God says in his word in Deut.30:15 See I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in HIS ways, and to keep HIS commandments and HIS statues and HIS judgements that thou mayest live and multiply. (Deut.30:19 therefore choose life.....). Ok so now this young man can go with what he's been taught/being told (social norm) or he can do contrary and go with his feelings (natural inclination)which leaves him to deal with the consequences of whatever he chooses. See the enemy already started his part. He began early in this boy's life causing things to happen that would make him seem strange from the rest. Then he caused the influence of name calling to plant seeds of homosexuality on his life. When the boy looks back at his life, he feels he was born this way. He can begin to call himself gay and that's what he will be cause it starts in the mind and what you allow your mind to ponder on takes root in your heart and the bible says in MAtthew 12:34 that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. So if you say your lesbian then indeed that's who you are and you are in your own will and walking the road that the Devil intended for you to. But that's the one side of the story; because this young man can do the opposite and began to now seek the face of God for truth about his lifestyle. In order to do that he must not only read and study the word of God, but he must ask the Lord into his life, give the Lord his will(what he wants and desires in life) and ask God, God what do you want(what God wants and desires out of his life). He has to ask God:"Who do you say I am? Who have you destined me to be? God I give my desires for me to you in exchange for your desires for me. I am comfortable being homosexual but your word says no so cause me to be able to do like your word says I must do which is renew my mind (Romans12:2) that I may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
It is good to believe in the divine order of God. I applaud those who acknowledge the Father and his divine order cause so many don't even believe in him at all. O bless the name of Jesus!!Amen. But in order to actually walk in the divine order of God, you've got to spend time with him to know just who he is and what he wants. Not what you've heard others say or read about him but get to know him for yourself. You get close enough to him and he'll change your whole life lol. I encourage who ever reads this to seek the face of God dilegently (the bible says he is a rewarder to them who dilegently seek him) but please don't go to him close minded. You have to open up yourself whole heartedly and be willing to except all he says (the bitter with the sweet). Just say God, "i am willing to allow you to remove anything and/or anybody out of my life that is not like you or will cause me to miss walking in your divine purpose and destiny for my life." So how do you receive the Holy Spirit? Just ask for him. Trust me, you need the Holy Spirit's guidance. With as much false doctrine out here now and yes even the bible has been translated so many times i'll admit. But the holy spirit will lead and guide you into all truth. Anything that is not in line with God you will be convicted of. Even the things you once thought was the correct way, he will give you counsel. It's kinda hard to explain to those who don't know anything about him but i'll try. He's like a passion. For instance, those who God have gifted with talents have a passion for what they do. Musicians can make a mistake with a note and you'll never know it but they will. Why? Cause they've spent enough time developing their gift that they know what is the right and wrong in their music. It's the passion within them that constantly unctions them to do what they do. With me it makes no difference cause i have no idea what its like to play music. I wouldn't understand what a musician goes through developing a song. I don't know key A from key C or if you even call them keys lol. Likewise with the Holy Spirit. The more time you spend after that you have recieved this gift, the more you will grasp hold of what is right and what is wrong according to God. And having him within will be the very unction of your footsteps walking in the divine order of God. There will develop a passion like with how i am with music.....most people won't understand. It's something you just gotta know for yourself. But oh its so real. Please don't just read these words and go yeah whatevva, but i encourage those who really want to be in tune with God to try him for yourself. Living for him is a sacrifice i'm not even gonna lie. And i'm not gonna tell you that you can stop having homosexual feelings over night. It don't always work like that. For some, maybe it did. But the reality is that for most, deliverance was a process. And process is okay. It doesn't mean stay with your partner until you think God will just remove them out of your life, no, you have to come out from amongst the sin and from everything/everybody associated with it. I encourage you to do so. Is it easy? Heck no. Remember i said it's a sacrifice but i can promise you that God will reward you for all you sacrifice for him. The hurts he will heal. The weeping of sorrow he will fill all those voids and turn the weeping of sorrow into tears and laughter of joy. Surround yourself around people of the same faith(whom you can trust cause not all churches can effectively handle the issues of homosexuality. Pray that God lead you to the right mentors and prayer warriors you need.)
What's within you now doesn't have to stay within you. Seek replacing what's within now with the Lord Jesus Christ in your heart and being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Amen. If you decide to stay a homosexual.....who am i to judge? You are God's creation and it is him who shall judge us all. Though I do leave with you a challenge....You say you are lesbian/gay, but God says you are a chosen people set aside for his glory. He says that he has called you out of sin into holiness and righteousness. Now think again and answer----Who Are You? My name is Teracina and I love you with the love of God.
Anointed, thank you so much for taking the time out to express yourself in my blog. It seems to me that a lot of people think that homosexuals are not educated about the Bible. I can only speak for myself, and i am thoroughly educated and passionate. What i do not believe is that the devil makes a path for you that you somehow end of following by choice. I do believe that he can manipulate, and it seems as though thats what you believe most of us have been. Manipulated-- To believe our way is God's way. Trust me all the "remedies"(probably not the best wording) for my "choice" my mother has already spoke upon and this woman here has been there and done that. And you are right it IS NOT EASY. And after praying for 16 years and being dedicated to the Lord and faithful, there is no ounce of me that believes I am headed in the wrong direction. I am not lost. I do not water bad seeds. I am not weak for desire. I do agree that we speak out loud our truths but contrary to this blog and what most may think a homosexual's life is growing up no one including myself thought me to be different or a lesbian. Religion is always a sensitive topic when being discussed but what was written is NOT what most of us read. I have studied outside of my own beliefs and oooooooh is translation and interpretation manipulated even in the word which we read. I dont just read and believe. I live and KNOW, struggle and EXPERIENCE the SPIRIT of God not just what is written in the bible to be taught to me. I am not a puppet but a seeker. And the truth dwells in the end. Until then I pray and wear my armor like i always have.
Oh and feel free to give examples of scriptures that say homosexuality is a sin. So that I can possibly direct you to the original writings and how it has been changed.
BUt i beg you people, please get it out of your heads that "homosexuals" do not know the Bible in and out and know the "word" of God.[""quotations are only used for my own opinions of the saying"] I just hope the people who spread what they believe to be God's word spread it to everyone else and practice it themselves. And if it be we are all flawed, why are my flaws greater than yours?
I know this is alot. lol but feel free to respond
Her-N-Eve, I am glad that you didn't take offense to the posting on your blog but rather received what most would feel is my opinion in a very mature and respectful way. Thank you. You mentioned that you do not believe that the Devil has a path followed out for a person. Well, I have to respect that but the bible lets us know that he cometh only to kill, steal and to destroy and that he roams the earth day and night seeking whom he may devour. The Devil is very smart. He plans very intelligently and very cunningly.....his expected end for you. I do not doubt for one minute that you or anyone else is not very well knowledgeable about the bible. Sorry if my previous content lead to that assumption. And as for experiencing the Spirit of God and having him in your life is not one that i would argue. The bible clearly states for everyone that has breath to praise the Lord. He gives the sinner and the saved the permission to praise and exalt who he is and he will not rob his presence from anyone who seeks it. He also says that he reigns on the just and the unjust. God is no respect of persons. But having said all of this still brings me to the fact that i cannot go aside of what i know the Lord has dealt with me about. You say you can only speak for yourself and i respect that but i can't speak for myself. I've been charged by God to share and speak his word in truth with absolutely no compromise. Sometimes I wish I could just keep it to myself but the spirit that dwells on the inside of me won't let me. Sin is sin. Homosexuality is no greater than another sin/flaw but i can't back down from the fact that it is a sin.
Scriptures....ok, i'll be open minded to the original scriptures you intend to present. The ones I mainly go by are old testament Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind:it is abomination. After this scripture he gives the command for mankind not to lie with animals. Why do we argue the fact about laying with mankind but we can except that having sex with an animal is wrong? Why do we except some of the word of God and not all of it? True, you are so true....people have changed the translations so much that the original has been overlooked yet God still has not allowed man to completely destroy his original meaning. There is enough in the word of God to live by and understand of what he requires from his people. That's why we are baptized with the Holy Spirit.....to help lead and guide us.
New testament Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up into vile affections:for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature;And likewise the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one for another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that which recompence of their error which was meet.
I know it is a hard pill to swallow, but its the truth. Why God opposes of it so bad is beyond my understanding but some things with God is just like with a person's mother. I used to ask mom why about a certain thing she would not let me have and she would respond....because i said so. And that was the end of discussion. Likewise with God, some things are just because he said so. What i posted previously on the blog was just an example of some people but like you when i was growing up, no one had a clue that i was a lesbian. I didn't get picked on, act like a boy, none of that. I had an average person's way of growing up in life. Never seen homosexuality in my family, friends in school all loved boys and so I tried to fit in with them but deep down knew that women were my passion. Dominant in my relationships but 100% girly (lol) My parents were devastated when I told them at the age of 18 but I had to do what was going to help me. It was no longer living my life for them or church people or who ever, but there was a weight off my shoulders to finally be able to say I'm gay. And so that was that. It didn't matter to me how anyone felt. I was me. As far as the bible, yeah i was raised in church and knew it like the back of my hand but I knew how I was feeling and had always felt from like kindergarten. Not even knowing what sex was and was fascinated with one of the girls in my class. Like, everything about her just made me constantly want to be by her and look at her. The older i got it didn't go away, I began to learn women and appreciate them and love them. But one day I met a woman who changed my whole life. I had started back going to church and she has a prophetic gift. This lady traveled in and out of town and sure knew nothing of me or my personal life so when she spoke to me about the things that were going on in my life at that time and how God was trying to get me to rededicate my life to him I was so shocked,(like she knew stuff that only God was supposed to know) and at the same time devastated. A person on drugs going to Jesus..yeah...who would argue after getting tired of selling all you have just to be high. A person sick wanting healing....sure understandable. Boy and a girl shacking the people say just get married.....but to deal with the fact that God I don't have a lot of negativity in my life, and most of all I know of you and pray and read your word and just this one thing you ask me to let it go? What's wrong with loving someone? God....all it is is that I love a woman. Why is it wrong? We are educated, doing positive things in life, giving and caring towards people and yet you still say it's wrong. I cried so much and for so long that I thought there was just no way this could be possible for God to allow someone to hurt like this. I didn't let that woman go immediately. When I did let her go it was because she fell in love with someone else. I continued to be me....yeah....a lesbian. Still hung out with my friends and all and God would not give up on me. When I decided to give ear to what he had to say....I chose to make the sacrifice. I gave him my will in exchange for his and he's been coaching me through this new life ever since. If it was ok to be gay and be alright with God, there is no way I would be sitting here saying gay is a sin. But the truth is just the truth. People didn't convince me, the bible didn't convince me,but it was God who convinced me himself. I don't think for one moment that you don't know him her-n-eve. I rejoice at the fact that you do. Continue knowing him....if you are seeking him the way you say you are then you are in for a major turn around. I bid you God's speed. The gifts/talent he has placed in you is just simply amazing. I love your songs and your poetry and your wife has an amazing talent as well. I do not judge you, I just share with you as well as others what God has given me to share. And yes amen...the truth will dwell in the end
We should exchange emails lol. I truly understand your story. HOWEVER (of course) I think people are misguided to think that because some of us are in similar situations God has the same plan for our lives in the end. 'We are homosexual so God's plan is to take us out of that in the end.' The reason I ask you to give me the scriptures you may go by to condemn homosexuality is to give an alternate perspective. We all grow up being coached to believe one way or an other even I find myself professing something i never researched. (Not saying you have not).Romans 1:26-27....the most important word in this scripture to "natural". One could use this against homosexuality if they felt that it was not one of the natural sexual orientations people were born with. Abnormal sex would be that which violates a person's basic nature. So to me it is a unnatural to have sex with the opposite sex because it goes against MY sexual orientation. I dont believe something natural to be societal but personal.Just like the food you eat and the clothes you wear. But if you do not look at orientation as something God created you with then this specific interpretation is irrelevent. Leviticus 18:22 "V'et zachar lo tishkav mishk'vey eeshah toeyvah hee."And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman...also And a man who will lie down with a male in beds of a woman. But of course there have been additions like [as the] to make it seem like a man should not sleep with another man [AS] he does with woman. That is not the Hebrew translation and there were words for homosexual even though that word was not created until recently. So it seems weird that nowhere in the Hebrew Bible the word for that was used. And the list goes on with examples of these. There is for instance another passage condemned mastubation but as that became more popular in society the scripture was used to condemn homosexuality. Its all about interpretation for your own life. I am not one who believes because God's will was to take you out of that life means that it is his plan for mine. I dont believe our fates lie the same because of our familiar circumstances. Possibly it was not your nature to be a lesbian. lol (thats my joke for the day). I guess whats frustrating sometimes is the "FACT" of sin. I dont argue whether or not one believes homosexuality to be a sin. But how it is so different from the daily sins everyone commits that people feel the need to condemn it so harshly. That is my problem. I am going to take a step back and ask questions. Lets take for instance a tribe where Christianity does not exist and neither does the word homosexual. In the Melanesian culture as well as many others it is believed that boys do not produce their own semen so they have to get it from older men by sucking their penis. These people dont believe that boys are born with semen. So boys between the ages of 10 and the middle 20s are inseminated by older men on a continuous basis until they have their first born. WHat are their consequences and who is their God? Are these homosexual acts? Or something that is natural. This is what I mean by this ideology of nature. It is isolated only giving meaning to oneself. I have my beliefs but I cant allow myself to be ignorant to any other truth, interpretation, or experience. To me my sin has been pre-marital sex, and its just so funny that those rights are taken away. But my ideas go on and on and if i can conjure up some more things from this brain ill add. Write back if you will. Thanks
LOL....your are mad silly! You right, we should exchange emails(hahaha). I know people be like dag who is this 'anointed' girl taking up the whole blog. But thank you again so much for allowing me the opportunity to express what i believe. I have read your comment response with all focus and consideration. Indeed your comparisons/controversies are very strong points, however, i must agree with you that we sill just remain in disagreement. Agreeing to disagree is ok. I do stress to any individual that i engage in discussion with about this the very same point that you brought out about people taking this issue and nailing it to the cross as though it is so bogus from anything else. There is no big sin and little sin. There just is no big wrong and little wrongs with God. He judges them the same. Though i understand it is not your idea to call it a sin. As far as our fates not being the same.....true. Noone's is. We all have different destinies in life but (though i know this is where we differ) God is no respect of persons when it comes to what he expects out of us in order to have a true relationship with him. What he requires from me is what he requires from all....and that's obedience to his word. I know homosexuality is a word man has formed themselves, but i see no dispute to the word because of its meaning. The Melanesian culture you discussed is an interesting topic. These people in my opinion like many other cultures fall under the scripture that God said about his people perishing from lack of knowledge. It just bewilders me how some cultures actually teach and believe some of the customs they practice,yet, it is found in the bible many times how different cultures worshiped other gods and believed in customs contrary to what God had commanded. God was constantly trying to get them to turn from their carnal ways and serve him. Men believing that young boys do not produce their own semen is not an act of homosexuality to me but an act of ignorance(not stating this in a negative way). I say that in relation to the same way that I say to people how I am glad that I am not a superstitious person. I was raised in a lot of that stuff and growing close to God taught me that most of that stuff from my past generations were just results of people's lack of God's wisdom and knowledge. I can remember things like being scared to kill a cricket cause it so called meant 7 days bad luck lol. We may differ but that doesn't stop me from seeing the gift that God has placed inside of you and once again i make note on your blog to highly esteem the positive you do. You are an inspiration to many and when someone mentioned about your youtube page i checked it out and subscribed some months ago. And yes, if you come with anything else to share off the brain(lol)i will take an open mind as to what you have to say. Many blessings to you
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